Posts by cognizant dissident

226

Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.

by the research lady in

jw
friends

former elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.

our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.

the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.

cognizant dissident

so now Cog is her own goddess. It happens all the time in a self-worshipping world, what with glamour and power trips and birthdays and promotions and all the other forms of bestowing honour on mere mortals.

I never said I was my own goddess Spike. I am a human being, no greater lesser than any other human being. I don't worship myself, idolize other people in any way. My life has no glamour, I have no power, and I'm bestowed no honor by anyone. I also do not bestow honor on the figments of other people's imaginations, (which I believe all god's are). Rather, I look around me, see and experience what is real, and accept the full gamut of human and animal behaviour, in all it's contradictions.

Cog

26

Is punishing someone for changing their religion against international law

by ldrnomo in

i saw this on wikipedia:.

the united nations commission on human rights, considers the recanting of a person's religion a human right legally protected by the international covenant on civil and political rights: "the committee observes that the freedom to 'have or to adopt' a religion or belief necessarily entails the freedom to choose a religion or belief, including the right to replace one's current religion or belief with another or to adopt atheistic views [...] article 18.2 bars coercion that would impair the right to have or adopt a religion or belief, including the use of threat of physical force or penal sanctions to compel believers or non-believers to adhere to their religious beliefs and congregations, to recant their religion or belief or to convert."[5].

seems to me that being shunned by family and friends for quitting jehovah's witnesses would be penal sanctions.. .

cognizant dissident

My son had a younger frien, a couple of months short of 16yrs, whose JW parents were trying to force him to go to meetings after he said he didn't want to be a JW anymore. They also tried to force him to quit his job as there was a "worldly" girl there he liked. He would go to see her after school instead of coming right home and they sent the police after him to force him to come home. My son told him to print off this UN Human Rights charter and read it to them. He did and he also asked the policeman if they could force him to be a JW and the police said no. They told his parents, he's not breaking any laws by working and seeing his girlfriend, so stop calling us.

I could just picture the police leaving their house shaking their heads. "Nice kid, respectful, in school, works after school, girlfriend his own age...yeah let's call the cops because he wants to go to her house instead of the K.H."

226

Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.

by the research lady in

jw
friends

former elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.

our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.

the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.

cognizant dissident

show me one set of God's people that didn't have organisational issues due to imperfection?

That's impossible for me to do Reniaa, as I don't accept your assumed premise that any people are "God's people" or that people in general are "imperfect". Humans are as they are, and they create their God's in their own image, according to what they value in this life. That's one reason, I have no burning desire to save any JW's or anyone else from their beliefs. In some respects, we get the God we deserve, in that we create one in our minds that is a reflection of our own level of spirituality or lack thereof. I left JW's because I thought I deserved better, a God who was more compassionate than I, not less so. (I'm still looking in vain, btw). :-)

When we transcend the need for a primitive, patriarchal, parent God, who gives us rules and tells us what to think, do, say and wear, and claims to provide us with easy black and white choices to all life's dilemmas, then we will "grow up" spirituality and move out/on.

226

Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.

by the research lady in

jw
friends

former elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.

our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.

the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.

cognizant dissident

single mom with no partner and a challenged child is the lowest of the low in the congregation pecking order.

Lets be fair to the argument and not get personal...

This whole thread evolved into an argument because Reniaa discounted the testimony of this Assembly Overseer without ever hearing it. Instead she speculated about his personal agenda without any evidence or knowing anything about him.

My comment was simply an attempt to speculate about what her motivations might be to behave in such a manner that is clearly mind-boggling and frustrating to many posters here. Since she questioned the assembly overseers motivation in speaking out, it is only right that her motivations also be questioned. Or do you hold some posters to a different standard of argument than others?

My post was not a personal attack on Reniaa as I do not look down in the least on single mothers, df'd or not, or those with sick or disabled family members. I was often friends with those ones when I was a JW as I couldn't stand the self righteous, elderette types. It is an often repeated lament of those ones, in the congregation and on this forum, that they, in fact, did feel as if they were ignored in the congregation and on the bottom of the unofficial, (but oh, so obvious), JW social heirarchy. If I had a dime for every time I heard single mothers complain about how left out they were socially, I'd be out shopping right now!

I cannot be "fair to the argument" with Reniaa because there is rarely any rule of logic to her arguments. Instead, we are treated over and over again to the same straw man, black or white, and circular reasoning parroted directly from Watchtower literature. She totally ignores valid points made by other posters and simply moves from thread to thread spouting the same nonsense.

I stand by my speculations about why Reniaa posts here, as un-PC as they may be. Are they to be taken seriously as logical and fair argumentation? Absolutely not, but then I haven't seen any of that on this thread or in Reniaa's posts. That's really not what we're doing here is it?

226

Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.

by the research lady in

jw
friends

former elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.

our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.

the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.

cognizant dissident

Reniaa..Why would you care about an Organization(The WBT$),you publicly admit to not following..
Outlaw: I can guess why Reniaa continues to post the same tired arguments here, thread after thread, against all logic and reason. At the KH, in the JW organization, a disfellowshipped, single mom with no partner and a challenged child is the lowest of the low in the congregation pecking order. They can't even trot her out at assemblies as a good example of long suffering since she is df'd and not pioneering.
Compare that to the power she has to garner attention, 24/7, on this forum, albeit negative attention, but attention nonetheless. Look how much feedback she gets from everyone. Look at how she is able to derail any discussion on any topic and turn it around so that everyone is addressing her and paying attention to her. I daresay, this venue provides Renaii with the most power and attention she will ever have in her life.

50

TMZ has a photo of Paris and her brother at the kingdom hall Tues night!!!

by Pandoras cat11 in

jw
friends

i know, i know, more michael jackson news.

this for some reason has got me ticked off.

if you go to the tmz website you will see a photo of paris and her brother holding the "sing praises to jehovah" songbook.

cognizant dissident

Here women and girls must wear hose, formal shoes, full skirts several inches below the knee, loose blouses buttoned up to several inches above the cleavage, camisoles and slips underneath. No tattoos, fancy highlights or hair colors, unusual or fancy hairstyles, little jewelry, and even less makeup. Makeup and nail polish must be earth tones only. No toe rings or ankle bracelets. No expensive jewelry.

Wow Rebel8:

The East Coast JW's really are different from the West Coast JW's. You might find some orthodox Pentacostal girls dressed like that out here but JW women wouldn't be caught dead dressed like that! I guess we tend to follow hollywood for fashion more than Brooklyn. lol

21

How Old is Too Old to have Children?

by VIII in

jw
friends

oldest woman to give birth dies, leaving twins, at age 69. her twins are 2-years old!.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090715/ap_on_re_eu/eu_spain_oldest_mom.

wtf is wrong with people?

cognizant dissident

Biologically, the twenties is the healthiest time for a woman to conceive. The risk gets greater with every year over 30 but is still fairly low at 33, LouBelle. It is after 40 that the risk becomes really great and by age 45 most women would have to use donor eggs to get pregnant. Their womb can carry a baby if they haven't gone through menopause, but their eggs have deteriorated to such a point that there is a 1 in 25 chance of having a baby with a chromosonal defect. Men's sperm also begins to deteriorate after age 40, albeit more slowly.

Nature does indeed tell us when is the best time, the question is, are we wise enough to listen to it?

50

TMZ has a photo of Paris and her brother at the kingdom hall Tues night!!!

by Pandoras cat11 in

jw
friends

i know, i know, more michael jackson news.

this for some reason has got me ticked off.

if you go to the tmz website you will see a photo of paris and her brother holding the "sing praises to jehovah" songbook.

cognizant dissident

Reniaa, there is no dress code for Christians anywhere in the Bible. No where does it say women must wear dresses to worship, men must shave their beards. children must dress in suits and ties like little adults on a regular basis. These are WTBTS dress code rules which go far beyond what the scriptures require, and by adding these extra rules not required of Christians by scripture they are going against the word of God and adding further burdens to their brothers.

You are also guilty of using the fallacious logic called black and white thinking, presenting two choices as if they were the only options. You imply it is better for children to be at the Kingdom Hall worshipping than to be hanging out with drug dealers as if that is the only alternative available and there aren't many wholesome activities for children to do with parents other than attending the Kingdom Hall.

Just as a matter of interest, when I was in high school, the school drug dealer was an elder's son! So using your logic, I could say it is better not to go to the kingdom hall so as to avoid association with drug dealers. Rediculous!

There is also no biblical instructions not to celebrate birthdays or Jesus birth. Please don't ressurect the tired analogies of the bad things that happened at two birthday parties in Biblical times. There were atrocities that happened in the temple in Bible times too. Do we use that as a valid reason not to go to God's house and worship? Do we avoid town squares because Stephen was stoned there. Do we stop going to weddings because some people got drunk there? Again the logic is ridiculous. If we were to avoid places and occasions where murder and immorality happened we wouldn't even be able to set foot in kingdom halls or assembly halls. We wouldn't be able to leave our own houses. Or stay in our own houses for that matter.

Cog

12

Terrorist attack kills 200 - corpses mutilated

by Awakened at Gilead in

reuters, july 15, 2009 6pm local jerusalem time.

man kills 200 in gaza strip and cuts off their penises.

it seemed like a perfect day.

cognizant dissident

Awakened: Not everyone on this board appreciates satire, I've found.

Wouldn't it be great to give an article like that to one of the elders and ask them what they think of this nutjob? Then record their faces when they figured out you were talking about King David. Priceless!

I think you would have to make it slightly more subtle though, as I figured it out half way through. There were a couple of too obvious giveaways.

Cog

277

Some people don't teach their children manners. Grrr.

by FlyingHighNow in

jw
friends

i had an hour to kill before picking julian up at a birthday party, last friday.

so, i decided to go relax at the library.

"when i was a child, we gave up our chairs for adults.

cognizant dissident

How she was raising her children has nothing to do with it. Lack of kindness and respect to neighbors is the issue at hand.

BlueCanary, that encapsulates it all.

That is what the issue should have been about but it is FHN who made the issue about people not teaching their children manners (see thread title).

It is FHN who made the issue about whether children should automatically give up their seats to adults when she made the comments that children should give up their seats to adults over college age (how you arrive at this demarcation line is another issue again) and that any parents who don't agree are instilling selfishness, rudeness, disrespect and lacking the proper reverance for adults.

FHN made that the issue and when some posters disagreed with her pronouncing such JUDGEMENTS on a woman who may not have shared her cultural bias about what consitutes respect, based on one mnior incident, they were addressing the issue that FHN raised.

No one made a big deal out of it except FHN. Everyone else was just addressing the mountain she raised out of a molehill.